Answering more comments

I have received more comments which I will respond to. I won't be responding to all comments only what I believe need to be answered, but I value all of them and they keep me motivated. So please continue!

If I do not highlight any comments please do not think I do not value it. It is simply because I agree with it or the point has already been mentioned or the comment is a repeat of another. Other people also read your comments! Don't forget! I hope this blog will become a collective effort between me and those  who comment.

To everyone, every single comment is worth reading, so please read them.

Also attacks of a personal nature against anyone will not get a response. This is not about personalities. What is wrong is wrong and what is right is right, the personality discharging that duty is immaterial. Everyone in those positions has the same duty and responsibility, with the ultimate authority in the chairman. That duty and responsibility comes with the position (and some pay!). If there are other people as board members and not the current members, they would have exactly the same duties and responsibilities. These duties and responsibilities should not defer/ be any less based on who the person is. Why should it?

Please also note you can safely leave your comments annoymously if you wish or under an assumed persona. Your annoymity is assured.

Ok, on to the comments,

First one up, from a Mr. Sivam, as again the comments will be in bold and black and my response this time will be in blue and italics.

Thava and Gunasegaran
Please stick to facts. Should this blog be a platform for open discussion or defence? One question is whether NLFCS progress is optimal or just so. You need more info than you have now to justify the assertion which you make. Please check on the assets , the ROI and the monies spent on bad investment which could have been better utilised. Please check on how the estates are actually managed, the ones left. Please check on the sale of prime assets. Please compare the growth of other plantation companies started about the same time as NLFCS.

PLease check on the early days of the reginal meetings and also on how people who seemed to be against TSS were treated. Please check on how NLFCS companies managed by 7M ran. Please check how much 7M were paid.Please find out wheu=ther Premium paid for Board members to be flown to India for a board meeting which happened to be at the same time as the MD's daughter's wedding.

For those who do not know what ROI is, it is Return on Investment. To put it simply, if you had money in the bank and the interest rate was 4%, then your ROI at the end of the year would be 4% against that initial deposit. It is the profit (percentage return) made on the initial and additional capital put into an investment.

The first paragraph is exactly the kind of information needed to make an accurate assessment of performance. Of course since NLFCs is also in property, has a healthcare arm etc, each of those will have to be measured separately. I do not disparaged NLFCS's performance but only say that only a proper benchmark can provide an accurate measure and it appears in all cases it could have done much better.

As an example, if I invested in an oil company and Oil has gone up 100% but I only received a 10% return, then 10% in itself is a good return but measured against the fact that Oil has gone up 100%, it is not. This kind of performance indicators are missing I believe. If this kind of comparison indicators are not there then performance cannot be measured.

And as to what this blog should be. It is a completely open platform so of course there should be some defence as well. All opinion in agreement or disagreement is welcomed. But more importantly is, more information is welcomed. Information is something that can be highlighted, verified and discussed. Everything else is opinion which people can agree or disagree with.

On the 2nd paragraph, I can't offer any comments. It is what it is. I have already mentioned about 7 m.

Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned contribution Mr. Sivam, it is appreciated.

Again there are are other comments that should be read. I am not highlighting all of them here but they all deserve consideration.

The below is a comment from a Mr. Ian which I have broken up into paragraphs, answering each point separately.

I believe your idea is that now that Makkal Sakthi was able to bring down a strong political party why dont use the same steam to hit NLFCS.
Well I just dont believe you guys. So what happens next bring down all Indian Organisation doesnt matter if we kill ourself in the process.
We have started to blame others for our downfall but what we fail to see is that it is we who choose to stand in the same circle.Why not compare NLFCS with other organisation of Indian Communities interest like some Holding company or cooperatives.

Before I comment on this whole paragraph, "We have started to blame others for our downfall but what we fail to see is that it is we who choose to stand in the same circle" I don't understand this particular sentence so I won't be commenting on it.

I believe your idea is that now that Makkal Sakthi was able to bring down a strong political party why dont use the same steam to hit NLFCS.

What you believe is my idea is your opinion. Right now I am simply highlighting things that are not quite right. Do you believe the things I have mentioned are responsible and ethical and to the best benefit of the members of NLFCS? This is what should be established first before anything else.

The fact is in an ideal world this blog should not exist. Everything would be run well and to the best standards and no one would have anything to say. But I have come across people with a lot to say. Why is this? I myself felt strongly enough to start start this blog, why? Instead of doing something else, I am in front of a computer. Why? Why am I spending time and effort on this? Because I believe there is something wrong that at least should be highlighted to the members of NLFCS and possibility corrected. Please do not be afraid of information and truth. Why should you?

On the point of Makkal Sakthi, it is something I wanted to touch later on but since it is mentioned here, I must acknowledge that. Makkal Sakthi has made a difference. That is a debt I owe. When people used to came across wrong-doing by the powers that be, they simply put up with as "this is the way things are". There was a cost to challenge wrong-doing, you could lose your job, a lot of things could happen to you, and of course a lot of the times, nothing really changed, so you didn't. People believed they were powerless. Well Makkal Sakthi showed that that there was no reason to accept this anymore, to accept that "this is the way things are" and just shrug in despair, instead we (all malaysians) have realised our power both as individuals as well as our collective power to change things to "things as they should be". This is something I am happy to acknowledge and again it is a debt I owe.

Well I just dont believe you guys. So what happens next bring down all Indian Organisation doesnt matter if we kill ourself in the process.

This is about specifics instances of things that appear to be highly unethical and things that appear to be irresponsible in NLFCS and someone must answer for this. 

This is not about bringing down anything. It is not possible to bring down NLFCS. It is an organisation with ongoing concerns. employees etc so I am not sure what this bringing down you mention is about (unless mismanagement leads to a situation where the organisation has to be liquidated).

The ultimate authority in NLFCS is the board and its chairman. The question is, have they managed their stewardship of NLFCS's assets in the best possible manner? Have all their decisions been above board and ONLY FOR THE INTEREST OF NLFCS MEMBERS (their decisions should not have any other interest, right?!)? 

With all that I have highlighted, all that other people know from their own experiences, are the chairman and the directors the best people to continue the stewardship of NLFCS assets? If they are not, replace them with someone else who would be a better steward. There a lot of capable people out there. It really is that simple. Governments, companies, associations change their leaders and board all the time all over the world so what is the big deal? At some point the current board and chairman will also resign and be replaced by other people right?

You, I believe, are associating NLFCS with personalities and people. Are you saying that if certain people leave NLFCS will collapse? That really does not say much for all the people who work at NLFCs and therefore I am sure that is not what you meant right? People come and go after all. On a personal note, if you have ever worked in any of the NLFCS subsidiaries you would have learned very quickly that absolutely no one is irreplacable, absolutely no one that is, except, ironically, those who are the ultimate decision makers. Well the truth is, they too are also replacable.

And please keep things in perspective, this is specifically about the tens of thousands of NLFCS members (Indian and Non-Indian) and whether their best interest have been safeguarded. This is not about the 1m Indians in Malaysia who are not NLFCS members.

I am not sure how we would be killing ourselves by doing this?  We would be saving ourselves from slow strangulation really.

Why not compare NLFCS with other organisation of Indian Communities interest like some Holding company or cooperatives.

I have gone through in detail about how things should be compared in another post and above and so has Mr. Sivam in his comments. Why should NLFCS be firstly compared to entities with a different asset base and secondly within such a narrow universe of Malaysian based Indian interest.

Are you saying that if something is run by an Indian it should be judged in a different standard? The same standard and rules should apply to everyone, everywhere.

On how regional meetings were run those days, well i believe Toh Puan was there and also Tun's brother and not forgetting Tun's daughter. Wasn't this family run at that times.

As I have said, I have very little knowledge of the above. Your comment is what it is. I thank you for it and for highlighting this point.

Just because TSS over the 50 years of working life has managed to get some decent savings and investment that went well, you guys are questioning him.

I have no idea about the chairman's savings and investment and do not care, that is his business. What I care about is when he has the same interest as NLFCS, such are his shares in Premium Nutrients, then that should be accounted for properly and how they were acquired explained and the board of NLFCS has to ensure that everything has been done to ensure that NLFCS has/does not lose out in the process. Also he and those associated with him should declare all their related transactions with NLFCS an NLFCS connected entities to the ultimate level.

In relation to that I am most keen to know who the ultimate beneficiaires of Seven M Management are (ultimate beneficaries as in where did the money FINALLY end up at, not who actually on paper owns Seven M).

I believe if he was not in NLFCS he would have been a more sucessfull businessman(much bigger than some of the current richest people in Malaysia).
I suggest like me do some research find out how TSS was before NLFCS especially during his times in Kedah.

That is your opinion about his business acumen. My concern is only for NLFCS. I do not care about what the chairman did 50 years ago or what he did in Kedah. I am concerned with NLFCS and the here and now. If someone else was the chairman I would still be saying the same things. This is about right and wrong, not about who the chairman is.

Also let me give you an analogy since you have also brought up Makkal Sakthi.
If a temple got destroyed and you ask your representative why he did not prevent it and he says to you oh, but I did this and this for you. Well the temple still got destroyed right? Same thing, these things have happened no matter what happened before.

All I can say is don't slay the goose which is laying golden eggs.

Once again, you are confusing personalities with institutions. The Goose is NLFCS not the chairman and the board. Please get this right. 

The question is, is the the goose being managed to the best possible effect? If everything was above board all this while would the goose be laying 2 eggs instead of one? Out of the one egg being received is all 100% going to NLFCS members or just 80% and 20%  being creatively siphoned off  ? (I will talk about creativity in another post).

Below is the last comment I will be answering

This is the problem with those who have joined Premium through recomendations from NLFCS. As soon as one starts working in Premium they start to think that they should be given the senior post, get fast promotions and better salary package, just because NLFCS has controlling shares in Premium. One who doesnt get this becomes disillusioned.
Whats wrong with you guys, why dont work harder, learn and have the fighting spirit. TSS can only recommend you for the job, its up to each individual to work their way up in the company.
I hope you would stop claiming that all of us from NLFCS recomendation to Premium are disillusioned. There are some of us who are still in Premium and doing the best and hope any promotions or better wages are from our performance and not from the fact we are from NLFCS.

As I have mentioned I did not join Premium Nutrients because of the salary. I joined it because it was part of NLFCs which had/has a noble purpose. The reasons I got disillusioned are clearly stated. This is what I said exactly "All the things I have witnessed had seeped it away" It being my idealism. I claim nothing on behalf of anyone else, you are putting words in my mouth. 

Your comments do not answer any of the questions I have raised. Please continue to do your best.